BMC B-Series Origins

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malcolmr18zoy
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BMC B-Series Origins

Post by malcolmr18zoy » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:24 pm

(Split from this thread)

At the MG factory, there were a team of people called engineers. Part of what they did was design air cleaners for MGBs. When they designed the air cleaners for the MGB, they designed it to flow the right amount of air to suit the mixture requirements of the engine through the rev and load range. If you decide that you're cleverer than those qualified engineers,and use non standard parts on your car, don't be surprised if you get less than satisfactory results. K&N are a company that manufacture specialist air cleaners. Their job is to persuade you to use their product instead of stock. Judging by the number of cars that I have improved by going back to stock air cleaners, they're good sales people.
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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by max71 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:31 pm

Good one Malcolm.

I'll burn their factory down if its been the air cleaners all along. Since they're in Riverside its not that far to go with a lit bottle. :lol: This is another case of NEVER make more than one change at a time....

I'll have to get some other base plates as the person who modified mine to work with the K&N's wanted my old base plates. I liked the look of the old air cleaners better than the K&Ns. These are too boy racer to me.

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by Steve » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:48 pm

Malcolm for president! You said what I've argued countless times with people who like to spend money more than they like to drive.

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by max71 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:52 pm

I resisted them for years. But, anyway, before I blame them I'll do a run without the air cleaners.

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by Jimmy » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:29 pm

malcolmr18zoy wrote:At the MG factory, there were a team of people called engineers. Malcolm
These guys weren't the same "engineers" that designed the wiring systems, were they?
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by Steve » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:32 pm

I've never had an issue with the wiring system in my MGs. Of course later MGs were far worse, but I suspect a lot of that garbage wasn't desired by the engineers. Unwelcome, but necessary. The only problems I've ever run into were age-related (corroded connectors, etc) but in their defense the cars were never expected to be on the road for more than one decade, let alone five!

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by Jimmy » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:48 pm

True. In England they couldn't survive very long in the water.
Guess the factory never considered the potential life span of the cars in the Southwestern USA.
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by Steve » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:11 pm

With MGBs in particular, I don't think ANYONE predicted that they would become an enduring classic. They were just cheap sports cars for people who couldn't afford "real" sports cars. They just happened to be pretty good at what they did, with legendary M.G. durability. With a bit more power (back to the twin cam discussion) they could have really made a mark on sports car history.

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by malcolmr18zoy » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:09 pm

I think it's ironic that the engine that was designed specifically for the MGB to replace the B series engine, was used in just about all BL products except the MGB. I'm talking about the O series engine that was later developed with a twin cam 16 valve cylinder head. There is one prototype in Salt Lake City, and I believe the lady wants to sell it. That would be an interesting car to own.
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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by max71 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:13 pm

I was bent on tracking down an O series engine at one time. That one in the states gets tracked now and again. I thought she sold it to someone in Oregon.

In looking at a thread on another forum there's the last model MGF for sale in Florida. LHD and clear title in Florida. How they got that done I don't know. Doubt you could bring it to CA but who knows.

By the way, I got an email back from Sean Brown who suspects my exhaust system is not creating the proper back pressure. Don't know but the Huffaker set up worked ok although I never had it dyno'd.

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by malcolmr18zoy » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:15 pm

By the way, there's a good reason that the MGB was one of the most popular sports cars ever built. It's because it was, and still is, a really good, fun car. With the right development, the MGB could still be going.
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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by max71 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:34 pm

malcolmr18zoy wrote:By the way, there's a good reason that the MGB was one of the most popular sports cars ever built. It's because it was, and still is, a really good, fun car.

As long as you can find a way to have them go past 4500 RPMs :wink:

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by Steve » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:04 pm

The O-series was a logical choice, but if I were going to do an engine swap today I sure as heck wouldn't use one. There are far better engines with easier parts to find. Might be different if the O-series was a period option but it wasn't. I'd either use a Rover V8 or a modern straight six. Better yet, I'd just buy an MGC GT and drive a proper sports tourer. :)

Gary, I really don't think you have a restriction (or lack of restriction) problem. You're running a basically stock exhaust. It's just a free flow silencer, like everyone else on the planet runs including me on all five of my MGs.

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by max71 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:10 pm

I have the twin silencers but I don't think so either. I'm sure it would breath better with a Pico or such or even with one silencer but again, worked fine with the Huffaker set up so I don't put much stock in that theory. I have heard that theory before in the years this has been ongoing.

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by Steve » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:14 pm

I thought he was saying you had a lack of back pressure. Too much is a different story. I forgot you had one of those cushy silent systems, too. I still don't think it's your problem though.

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by malcolmr18zoy » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:00 pm

I probably wouldn't do an O series engine swap either, but the O series was designed by MG people for the MGB, then they were not allowed to use it. So really it is MGB period, and with the 16 valve head and turbo, can really go. The thing is,I really like the B series engine. It's a no nonsense, tough, simple engine from the '40s. Most of the engines from the '40s were designed during WW2 by bored engineers who were looking forward to post war activities. The MGB was the last car to use the venerable B series, and will always be special to me. It was designed by original thinkers who didn't try to copy old ideas, but still managed to show a connection to their heritage.
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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by Steve » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:31 am

Technically the B-Series is from the 50's. The 1800 version B-series didn't come about until 1962, and the 5-main bearing 1800 not until 1964. Pedantic for sure, but I consider the MGB engine a solid 60's design, derived from 50's technology.

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by malcolmr18zoy » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:23 am

Actually the B series engine started with the 1200cc austin A40 engine of 1948, and was a development of the 1947 Austin 16 2199cc engine. The smaller 803cc engined A30 was introduced in 1951, that would be the A series engine. The C series came in in 1955 with the Austin A90 Westminster.
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Re: Austin Series 'B' Engines

Post by VWNate1 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:48 am

I highly concurr :thumbs: .

Good basic design that's still soldiering along nearly 60 years later , not bad .

Too bad they never learned basic Quality Control nor good upper management at BMC else we'd be driving new MG's to-day , they're damned good litte cars .

I have the same opinion of Lucas electrics ~ the designs are not bad (O.K. , Merlin Ingition and those wretched alternators aside) , it's the poor construction that gave us all fits , even in the 1960's when the cars were brandy new .
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Re: Did someone throw a boat anchor behind my car at 4500?

Post by Steve » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:46 am

Malcolm, if I'm not mistaken, the B-Series that we know today as the MGA and MGB engines came about in the early 50's. You're right there were smaller blocks made for the Austins but I don't know if those are really considered the same engine since they weren't really the same blocks. Hmmm...

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by Jimmy » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:15 am

Steve Simmons wrote:Malcolm, if I'm not mistaken, the B-Series that we know today as the MGA and MGB engines came about in the early 50's. You're right there were smaller blocks made for the Austins but I don't know if those are really considered the same engine since they weren't really the same blocks. Hmmm...
Steve, at your tender age, maybe you shouldn't question Malcolm's knowledge on the subject.
After all, he was there watching the Austin factory being built, once he'd helped Britain get rid of the Vikings.
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by Steve » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:25 am

If age made someone right on all accounts then we'd be in real trouble! ;)

I'm not saying Malcolm is wrong by any means. I'm only questioning whether we're talking about the version of the B-Series that was used in the MGB, or if we're counting the early, very different versions as well.

From WIkipedia (because you can always believe everything you read on the internet):
The pre-cursor of the "B" series engine was a 1200cc OHV engine which was used in the 1947 Austin A40 Devon. This A40 Devon engine was based on a pre-war Side-valve design. Austin realised that eventually they would need an engine that could power many of its forth-coming medium sized cars, and this would require an engine of at least 1500cc capacity. Since the A40 Devon engine could not have its capacity enlarged, a new engine was designed, which, although superficially similar, was actually longer and heavier than the A40 Devon engine. The design of this new engine commenced around January 1952, and was designated as the "B" series.

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by max71 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:29 am

I never believe anything I read in wikipedia. Once some moron asked me about sound/film editing and I explained the process. He then challenged me and basically called me a moron because "wikipedia" said all film and sound was done still by the old hand cutting/splicing method.

Wikipedia is worthless. I could go in there right now and amend that description and say Malcolm was the chief designer and Steve was the test driver...

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by Jimmy » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:35 am

Gary, I'm way too familiar with trying to use only the best and make it better...only to have it end up worse.
And, no, I haven't learned yet, either.
That's why I like also having piles, such as the Beater B, where I really don't care how it ends up running. Better is good, of course, but if not, at least the cost was minimal.
And in retrospect, the adjustable sprocket seems like a great idea.
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".

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Re: BMC B-Series Origins

Post by malcolmr18zoy » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:41 am

Well, that's twice i've tried to give you a brief, but accurate history on post war Austin engines. I submitted, but it didn't appear. I give up.
Malcolm

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