Range Rover Top End

Questions, answers and reports on various technical subjects.
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HealeyBN7
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Range Rover Top End

Post by HealeyBN7 »

Well, I hope this thread is just about the top end of our 95 Range Rover Classic 4.2.

I recently replaced the exhaust manifold and down pipe gaskets to fix what sounds like an exhaust leak. It is still there. So what I thought was a simple fix is turning into a full on Easter egg hunt.

The truck is down on power, and it has a pronounced "gardener-truck" sound under acceleration.

A compression test on Saturday showed low results on #6 (driver's side), then on Sunday, #6 looked OK and #3 on the passenger side was low.... variable compression?

Larry's bore scope, which is very cool by the way, revealed what looks like heavy carbon buildup on the intake valves. I suspect they are not closing when the truck is dead cold during the low RPM compression tests as it looks like small carbon particles are getting between the valve and the seat. I recently ran a can of fuel cleaner, so maybe it is working on the carbon buildup therefore the compression test results not be indicative of the problem. With 170K miles, I figured it was time for a valve job anyway, so I removed the intake plenum and valve covers last night.

What a job. There is such a mixed bag or metric an SAE bolt fasteners, I had to make extra room for all the tools. Is it really necessary to use both metric and SAE allens, and 12 point metric 8mm bolts within a one foot radius. Besides the fact that it feels like everything is just out of reach. Ugh. I know, enough complaining.

I found that three of the eight intake trumpets had worked their way loose. One was rattling in the housing, the other two rose 3/4" to affix themselves to the top of the plenum effectively sealing off incoming air. The worst offenders were #6 and #3.

If you see the photos you can see how high the trumpets rose before they touched the inside of the plenum cover. The shiny spot in the photo is from the trumpet rubbing, not a flash. Number 4, 6, 3 and 5 all worked their way up. I am convinced the loose trumpets explain the lack of power, not a flat cam as I had worried about. It's hard to make a pump work if you block one end.

How long has this been going on? For a while I am sure. It sure is odd. I have to figure out how to seal them back place - green loctite bearing sealer or something like JB weld.

Since, I have all the gaskets, I am still going to pull the heads as it won't hurt to do a clean up and reseal the engine.

Yes it is dirty, and yes I'll change the oil more often. New hoses, which were marginal at best, are on the way.

Hope this is it!

Dean
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Re: Range Rover Top End

Post by malcolmr18zoy »

Hello Dean,
We'll it looks as though the loose air horns could be the reason for your "variable" compression, and, maybe your rattle. Maybe you could check the compressions with the manifold off. I agree, at this stage, you should just go ahead and do a valve job, but a compression test, and a leak down test might give you some insight.
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Re: Range Rover Top End

Post by Larry Kluss »

Dean,

A few thoughts. First, your photos are lot easier to see on my computer then on my phone :)

Yes, Loctite for bearings is a good bet. Don't forget to use the matching primer.

Since you're this far in and it was difficult to get to this point, I agree doing the head gaskets, carbon removal, and maybe new valve stem seals, makes sense.

I also agree with Malcolm about doing a compression and possibly leak down before pulling the heads. That should tell you if the stacks were the cause of the inconsistent readings in #3 and #6. If the readings are still low, a valve job may be in order.

Larry
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Re: Range Rover Top End

Post by Steve Simmons »

Sleeve retainer might work well also. I've been using it on core plugs with good results.
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Re: Range Rover Top End

Post by HealeyBN7 »

Excellent advice on the leak down test, but I didn't do it:)

I pulled the heads off before noon to get them to the machine shop so I can have them back before Friday. I don't know what the rush is, but this is my daily driver truck and I hate it when it is down, even if I have no where to go and five other cars to take.

The heads looked reasonable so they should clean up just fine. More importantly the head gaskets were perfect, so they weren't a contributor to the variable compression readings, or coolant loss. Yes I had that issue too, but I can now narrow it down to a leaky hose.

The lifters and cam lobes are fine -- thank God. Getting the cam out of there looks like a real mess.

Since this is the first "V8" I have pulled apart, what is with the open valley in the middle? Regardless of how many blue towels I waste, it is impossible to keep stuff (brittle gasket pieces, water, etc) from falling inside. Of course I'll change the oil, but now I might have to remove the sump, or just let the strainer and filter do their jobs. I have a new curse for those that use brittle gasket maker.

I set the trumpets back in place using sleeve retainer. There were six that I had to remove and reset. Only two were tight.

Hoses and maybe the heads come tomorrow, so there is time for cleaning, but not the will...

Dean
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HealeyBN7
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Re: Range Rover Top End

Post by HealeyBN7 »

Heads shine like new. Soooo, V8.
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Re: Range Rover Top End

Post by Steve Simmons »

That looks so much better. So did you find a broken valve or anything?
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Re: Range Rover Top End

Post by HealeyBN7 »

No broken springs. The machinist said that the values were all within spec, so just a bit in the cutter and they cleaned up fine. He did comment on the carbon on a couple valves, but I think that was due to the intake runners falling off.

Torque angle bolts are new to me. Torque all to 15 ft lbs, then all 90 degrees, then all again to 90 degrees. I don't the heads will fall off.

Now there is just so much shine...
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Dean
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Re: Range Rover Top End

Post by VWNate1 »

So ;

How did it all come out ? .

last post was April :? .
-Nate
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HealeyBN7
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Re: Range Rover Top End

Post by HealeyBN7 »

What? An unfinished thread and no update on the final outcome. I told myself that i wasn't one of those internet types and yep - guilty as charged.

Since it has been so long between posting, perhaps you imagined that I decided to leave the intake plenum off and cut a hole in the hood so I can look at the trumpets under a plexiglass cover and pretend I am driving a vintage GTO.
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In reality, it came together so quickly that I didn't think to snap a finished photo.

It runs so much better. Top end power is restored and it revs right to red-line. I still have a slight exhaust leak and the fuel mileage is well....still Rover-like.

Dean
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Re: Range Rover Top End

Post by VWNate1 »

Thanx Dean ;

What is the average fuel economy ? .
-Nate
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HealeyBN7
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Re: Range Rover Top End

Post by HealeyBN7 »

Around town is it somewhere around 12. Freeway at low speeds it can creep up to a thunderous 15mpg. The very best mileage results are achieved on the top of a flat bed.

That gives me an idea on how to double my mileage.

Step 1. Drive to a destination less than 100 miles away
Step 2. Shop/explore/buy parts/do what you do at your Range Rover destination
Step 3. Call tow truck 1/2 hr before you are ready to leave
Step 4. Ride home in air conditioned comfort
Step 5. Repeat up to 4 times a year

No one would question the fact that the RR is broken - right?

Dean
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Re: Range Rover Top End

Post by Larry Kluss »

Great plan :lol:

I can hear your explanation now...
Dispatcher: "What is the problem with the vehicle, Sir?"
You: "Unsatisfactory petrol economy."
Dispatcher: "Oh, I'm sorry to hear your vehicle is broken down, Sir. Okay, do you require a flatbed truck?..."

The only problem I see with your plan is it may perpetuate the unreliable British car myth.

12-15 MPG is not too horrible. I get 10 in the Nova and maybe 11-12 in the Corvette.
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Range Rover Fuel Economy

Post by VWNate1 »

Well Dean ;

My '49 Chevy Shop Truck only got 12 MPG and I'm sure the Range Rover is more for (for you) to drive , non ? .

It's not really unreliable is it ? .
-Nate
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Re: Range Rover Fuel Economy

Post by HealeyBN7 »

VWNate1 wrote:
It's not really unreliable is it ? .
We bought this one with 68K an put on an additional 110K, so most of the miles are under our stewardship. This is our second RR.

It really has been very reliable. This was the oddest of the fixes yet, and had the benefit of freshening up the top end. I could have stopped when I got the plenum off, but what the heck.

The truck is pretty basic, with easy to reach parts and wrench-able without any special tools. We haven't had any "electrical" gremlins which I associate with unpredictable reliability. So, yes, it is reliable. I count on it for hauling me back and forth to to LAX to pay the bills. So far so good!

Dean
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