Thanks and Help! Electrical and Brakes

healeygal · Post by **healeygal** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:21 am

THANKS!
Just a note to thank Steve for recommending Jerry Felper for electrical repairs on a post either here or on one of the other forums (can't remember exactly where).

Last October my starter gave out at mile 348 of a 350 mile drive home from up north, i.e. two miles from home at 9 o'clock at night during a quick stop for a snack at Carl's Jr. Didn't want to wait for AAA, so we ended up push starting the car. Took the starter to Jerry for a rebuild, and it's working fine.

New Year's day, went for a local 50 mile ride, had a late lunch and decided to head home because it was getting dark. About two miles from home, noticed the headlights were getting dim. About five blocks from home noticed they were REALLY dim. Made the final left turn onto my street, and the car had enough energy to roll half way up the driveway, but not into its space in the garage - had to re-charge the battery over night then put the car away. Took the generator to Jerry, and now it, too, is working fine.

Which brings up to the HELP! After the generator got installed, was going to go for a ride - saw a puddle of liquid around the rear driver's side tire - this car breaks down just sitting still! Well, the wheel cylinder got rebuilt, but we can't get the brake pedal to come up and stay up. Bled all four wheels, furthest to closest about three times. The pedal will come up, but if you take your foot off the brake and wait a few seconds, it goes down again! We've bled the brakes before, about two years ago, after the rubber hose that collapses on the inside was replaced, and they were fine. Very perplexing!

Sharon

Post by **Steve Simmons** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:37 am

Hi Sharon, it's great to hear from you!

That's pretty strange, and I would have to suspect the master cylinder. It's hard to diagnose since I have never seen this problem in person. Assuming you have a return spring on the pedal itself, there would have to be a pretty significant vacuum in the system to pull the pedal down like that. What really gets me is that the pedal does come up, but then goes down again on its own.

You mentioned the leaky brake cylinder was rebuilt and the hoses aren't that old. When was the master cylinder rebuilt? Did you use the same type of brake fluid as always?

healeygal · Post by **healeygal** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:41 pm

Hi Steve,
Thanks for the reply. Same brake fluid as ever, and the master cylinder was rebuilt about 8 years ago. We're going to try one more round of bleeding the brakes, and if that doesn't work, send for the rebuild kit and do that...and if that doesn't work - off it goes to the mechanic! Been missing too many local events, and the weather has been just perfect for getting out and about!

Sharon

Post by **Steve Simmons** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:27 pm

Just to clarify, have you checked the pedal return spring? If it's anything like most cars I've seen, it should be connected between the pedal and firewall down by where your feet are when driving. The clutch pedal should have an identical spring connected. I still suspect the master but I'll wish you luck with the bleeding!

PS... silicon brake fluid is difficult to bleed sometimes, in case that's what you're running.

mike k. · Post by **mike k.** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:33 pm

If you have a spare wheel cylinder swap it out with the one you rebuilt to eliminate that as the problem. Any place air can get in i.e. brake hose connection or faulty bleed screw for example can produce the same results. I know from experience.

healeygal · Post by **healeygal** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:26 am

Besides the other planned items, will check the springs, hose connections, bleed screws, etc., and order a rebuild kit, so it'll probably be a few days before all the work gets done. There may be a spare wheel cylinder somewhere, but would have to go hunting for it! Will let you know the results in a few days. Thanks for the suggesitons.

Sharon

kiwimark · Post by **kiwimark** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:17 pm

Hi
bleeding the brakes by pumping the pedal takes the master cylinder seals places they have not been in a long time. 8yrs from what you wrote. If there is corrosion in the bore this extra movment will chew out the seals. Most mechanics use a vacum bleeder for this reason as the customer always will blame them when the master cyl fails after a brake job. It is good shop practice to check the master when the slaves are out.

Mark

healeygal · Post by **healeygal** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:31 pm

Hi,
Double checked - whole brake system was rebuilt 8 years ago, master was rebuilt again about two years ago. Worked on bleeding all four today - right passenger side seems to be the problem - bleed until clear, pump and brakes come up, wait a few seconds and brake goes down all the way again, so bleed some more, and bubbles re-appear. Repeat process and same thing happens! Will look into rebuilding master cylinder tomorrow.

Sharon

Post by **Steve Simmons** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:44 pm

Try building up some pressure by pumping the pedal a few times, then press down on the pedal and hold. At this point have your helper loosen the bleed screw to let the pressurized fluid spray out, and then tighten again right away. This may force more air out of the caliper.

I suppose you could always cap off that line to eliminate or confirm that caliper as the problem. If you do cap it off, do it before the rubber hose.

healeygal · Post by **healeygal** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:21 pm

Made a bit of progress - actually have some brake pedal - may even get brave and go for a ride around the block. Going to try everything one more time tomorrow, if no improvement, off it goes for a complete brake job - missing too many "perfect Healey-weather driving days" lately!

Sharon