2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by malcolmr18zoy »

Thankyou Steve for a wonderful morning of driving in the hills. The only way it could have been improved would have been to have lunch, and then do it again. I am sorry to hear about the chaps green MGB, hopefully not too serious a repair. Yes, I think for those roads, a smaller car would be better. I have a '75 midget that I hope to have ready for the next time. Smaller, more nimble, and less unnecessary power should be a good formula for fun. It was great to see the cars, and meet the people behind them, hope to do it again soon.
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by Steve Simmons »

Malcolm, both you and Doug in the Volvo 544 were at a bit of a disadvantage on this run, but keep in mind that this is the most twisty and brutal run of the year. The Memorial Day Run is a perfect run for the larger cars since there are fewer canyons and more country roads.

Someone (was it Tanny?) mentioned a Thanksgiving run. We've never done one but all it takes is for someone to grab the reins and do it! Otherwise the next planned run is New Year's Day.
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by matstng »

It was great to meet you guys and enjoy the time behind the wheel. Suzy and I had a great time even though we had to cut our cruise short to get home to help a friend and get to a BBQ. I'm bummed I forgot my camera as there was a buch of great photo ops.
Hope to see you on the next one and even though the Datsun ran well it could have been so much quicker with the SU's tuned in a little better. :)
See ya.
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by rally_x »

spitfire wrote: Steve the VW was simply a Golf with a lot of stickers on it. He may have done a few upgrades however it was not a GTI.
That's correct. It is a 78 VW Rabbit - one of the last German built models and not a GTI. However it does have some suspension work, a 2.0L 16v and a 5 speed upgrade with limited slip :D

It is the first car I've ever owned. I bought it when I was 16 back in 1985. I had purchased many of the "Euro" items in Germany before they were available here. I checked the bumpers and grill in as oversized luggage on one of my trips there to visit family :D
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run

Post by Jimmy »

Jimmy,
Actually the "gasoline-laced atmosphere" not only gave my GT more power, which is why I kept having to put on the brakes when following Steve, but it also gave me better gas mileage. When I did the pre-run on Saturday instead of my usual 25 to 28 miles per gallon, I only got 17.2. After following Steve on Monday, despite driving aggressively, my mileage went up to 23.3 miles per gallon. Maybe you need to richen up the mixture in your SUs and just maybe the turbulence from my GT caused you problems, though I don't know how, you weren't that close behind me. :)
Tanny, one reason I was staying back a bit was to avoid eye damage from to the excessive amount of red light that kept emitting from the rear corners of your car, about where the roof ends.
Also, I'm not used to driving Latigo that slowly, so since it was more of a sightseeing tour anyway, I simply sat back and admired the scenery for a change. Then, when your brakelights occasionally weren't on, I knew it was time to give it a bit more throttle for a few seconds before they lit up again.
Besides, it's just not safe to drive closely behind vehicles that have the brakelights on all the time.
Oh, and I think that while Steve's fuel-enhanced atmosphere certainly could've helped your mileage a little, by far the biggest gain must've been due to the fact that you effectively made the 10-mile stretch of Latigo into a 7-mile trip by blatantly ignoring the double yellow lines.
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by Jimmy »

Hey, Gene, according to Wikipedia we may not need to do much, if anything, to fend of that slow-poke Elf.

In order to protect themselves against malevolent elves, Scandinavians could use a so-called Elf cross (Alfkors, Älvkors or Ellakors), which was carved into buildings or other objects.[10] It existed in two shapes, one was a pentagram and it was still frequently used in early 20th century Sweden as painted or carved onto doors, walls and household utensils in order to protect against elves.[10] As the name suggests, the elves were perceived as a potential danger against people and livestock.[10] The second form was an ordinary cross carved onto a round or oblong silver plate.[10] This second kind of elf cross one was worn as a pendant in a necklace and in order to have sufficient magic it had to be forged during three evenings with silver from nine different sources of inherited silver.[10] In some locations it also had to be on the altar of a church during three consecutive Sundays.[10]

Unfortunately I couldn't get the symbol to copy, but basically it's a typical American Army style star, with the lines drawn through. Easy enough to apply to our cars.
Also, they seem to be rather self destructive according to history.
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by MoPho »

Apparently I need to show up next time and we'll see if Jimmy can keep an eye on my brake lights :devil:
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by Jimmy »

MoPho, please do!
It'd be so much more fun to try to keep up with someone than being stuck behind Tanny's PPU and Steve's portable smog producer. Those heavy, roofed things are almost starting to bug me.
At least when idling along behind the Elf, there's a reason for the temporary holdup.
(Oops. Did I bite into more than I can chew here?)
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by Larry Kluss »

MoPho wrote:Apparently I need to show up next time and we'll see if Jimmy can keep an eye on my brake lights :devil:
You're too quick for me, Morgan.

I had a little fun on the way home, after turning onto Mullholland heading west from Malibu Cyn, two motorcycles were behind me for a moment before I let them pass figuring they'd smoke me. I decided to try and keep up for a bit and did so all the way until I turned off a Cornell Rd. They'd pull away on the straights, but I'd be right on 'em in the next corner. At Cornell I looked over and waved and the guys just stared at me... 8)
I realize a really good rider would have cleaned my clock, but it was fun nonetheless.
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by Steve Simmons »

Photos are now posted in the Vintage Motoring Image Gallery! There are 67 photos, including a few from Tanny and Patrick.

The run has pretty much been covered with the photos above, but here are a few extras from the gallery...

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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by Kerim21 »

Hey Steve, thanks for a great run, I had a great time. It was really nice to meet some of you guys. I am sure I'll be seeing you all soon (for the next run). :)
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run

Post by elfman69 »

olson wrote:I think your sawzall could be used to great effect on the Riley Elf. ... If you could saw off the top, and the doors, and the boot, and toss some seats, it would be much better. At the next run I'll distract Doug and you can perform some surgery. You'll probably have enough sawed off parts to make a Fiat 500.
gene olson
Thanks for the kind words, guys. I might agree to the surgery if you promise to cobble the leftovers into a Fiat 500 -- I've always wanted one of those (egads, not another underpowered micro-car to get stuck behind)!

Gene, I'll happily follow you on the next one, and see if I can't occasionally fill YOUR rear-view with MY grille!

Always the greatest pleasure driving with you guys,
-- Doug
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by Jimmy »

Larry Kluss wrote:
MoPho wrote:Apparently I need to show up next time and we'll see if Jimmy can keep an eye on my brake lights :devil:
You're too quick for me, Morgan.

Hmm. What's the power to weight ratio of your car again, MoPho?
I might have to borrow Malcolm's Midget, then stab the V8 from my quick car into it.
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run

Post by Jimmy »

elfman69 wrote: Thanks for the kind words, guys. I might agree to the surgery if you promise to cobble the leftovers into a Fiat 500 -- I've always wanted one of those (egads, not another underpowered micro-car to get stuck behind)!


-- Doug
Doug, a Fiat 500 can be plenty quick.
Merely replacing the 18-1/2 hp motor with a 40-horse Abarth version made mine beat a V8 Chevelle in a stop light Grand Prix. Twice.
Lower it a little, and they'll also corner like a go kart.
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by MoPho »

Jimmy wrote:

Hmm. What's the power to weight ratio of your car again, MoPho?
I might have to borrow Malcolm's Midget, then stab the V8 from my quick car into it.
That won't help you 8)


5.9lb/hp
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by Steve Simmons »

Jimmy, that might help you in a drag race, but a V8-powered Midget will never beat Morgan's Super 7 through a canyon. You might have a chance if you built a time machine and brought Phil Hill circa 1965 forward to drive the Midget.
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Re: Or Maybe

Post by VWNate1 »

Paddy Hopkirk..... :lol:
-Nate
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by Jimmy »

MoPho wrote:
Jimmy wrote:

Hmm. What's the power to weight ratio of your car again, MoPho?
I might have to borrow Malcolm's Midget, then stab the V8 from my quick car into it.
That won't help you 8)


5.9lb/hp
Darn it. This might turn into more of a project than I had envisioned.

First I need to take the reciprocating saw to the Elf, then build a Fiat 500 from the leftovers, and lastly, stick the V8 in it.
I'll never get to working on the TD's steering wheel.
Besides, once done, the resulting car would probably be even trickier to drive than a Porsche. Well, at least a 500 is short enough to fit within a lane when sideways. (Hint, hint, Kristian).

Unfortunately I'm not sure how much my quick B weighs, nor do I know the exact output of the motor for certain, but it looks as if you have about a 0.77 lb./hp advantage at this point.

Maybe if I sand off all that needless wax and stuff, then have Steve drive in front of me to provide fuel enrichment?
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by malcolmr18zoy »

I don't think power to weight ratios mean as much as you're suggesting on the roads we were driving on Monday. Steering geometry, balance, tire compounds, and driving ability are probably more important. Jimmy, I don't think that I would be prepared to let you butcher my MG, it already has an adequate enginr for those canyon roads, certainly downhill. I would even say that too much power is a disadvantage in the canyons, especially if foot control is an issue.
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by Jimmy »

Okay, Malcolm, low weight is essential, that much we definitely agree on (but you like roofs on your cars?!?).
From experience, I'd say that a lightweight car is generally faster in the corners. Also from experince (if I'm driving it), a cheaper car is much faster in the corners.

This is my dilemma; I'm fairly certain I can drive my Beater B up Latigo as fast, if not faster, than I can the V8 B, although the latter is technically superior in every way.
MoPho's Caterham weighs about half of what my Beater B does, has three times the power, and...well, I'm screwed.

However, if I drove your Midget - which I obviously don't care about - I might have a fighting chance.
Either way, the best hope I have is that MoPho's affinity for using tow trucks to finish his trips will allow me to beat him. Heck, even the '79 I bought recently (complete with a lift kit, plus the front and rear step bumpers) should be quicker than a flatbed tow truck, right?
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by malcolmr18zoy »

I'm not familiar with mopho's ride, but, in theory, a Caterham should be a more efficient vehicle for Latigo Canyon than your MGB or my Midget. The unknown quantity, of course, is driver input. This can also be the great eqalizer of cars going through canyons. I'm not familiar with mopho, or his ride, but if he's a capable driver, you probably don't stand a chance against him in your MGB. You probably have a worse chance in the V8B because, even though your theoetical power to weight ratio is close, the MG is much heavier with only the same or similar contact patches to keep it under control. You can only vanquish him if you choose a route on which you can exploit whatever may be superior about your car.
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by Martin Keller »

Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy you would not even come close to betting Morgan's (MOPHO's) Caterham up Latigo Canyon with either your B or a V8 powered Midget or B.
The reason I say this is I have chased Morgan and there is no way I could keep up with his car and I was in my 7.
My 7 has a power to weight ratio not even close to Morgan's 7 and it is only 9.75 lbs per 1HP and I only have a conservative 120 HP and his car weighs in closer to 950 LBs and with probably close to 225 HP if not more and really sticky tires. :thumbs: :D :lol:
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by malcolmr18zoy »

OK Jimmy, so mopho has a 225 hp Caterham! Forget about the competitive spirit. You will find it, probably, impossible to drive Latigo faster in any of your cars. Go back to the original concept of these events, fun. I can have as much, if not more, fun in any of my old cars, as I could in a modern highly effective car. The difference is that it all happens at much lower speeds. So you may or may not be able to outdrive mopho, but you'll never outcar him with the equipment you have. I'd like to know what engine mopho's Caterham has, is it the Vauxhall engine?
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by Steve Simmons »

malcolmr18zoy wrote:I'm not familiar with mopho, or his ride, but if he's a capable driver, you probably don't stand a chance against him in your MGB
Capable is an understatement. Morgan is one of the few drivers I would trust to take me through a canyon road quickly. He's also familiar with the roads, although no one is as familiar with Latigo as Jimmy since he drives it every day.

Jimmy, the crack about the tow truck - ouch! :hammer:
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Re: 2009 Labor Day Run - Now with photos!

Post by MoPho »

The car is 1200lbs with about 200-210hp, it is powered by a modified Ford Zetec 2.0 and mated to a very close ratio 6 speed (6th is 1:1 :eek: ), it does 0-60 in about 3.9s, but much beyond that it has the aerodynamics of a brick, but who cares when 60mph feels like your flying?!

Latigo is much too technical for really powerful cars to take advantage of their prowess, when I said the v8 won't help, I was considering the handling factor more than power. While the power might help a little going UP Latigo, I much prefer going down, so Jimmy, even if my car breaks I can still coast down (to the awaiting tow truck) faster than you :lol:

I can always take out the old Lotus Elan instead, but then again, ask Steve what happens when you try and chase a Lotus down Latigo :P
malcolmr18zoy wrote: Go back to the original concept of these events, fun. I can have as much, if not more, fun in any of my old cars, as I could in a modern highly effective car. The difference is that it all happens at much lower speeds.
I've had the opportunity to drive many different modern exotic and very fast cars and it has led me to believe that the saying "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow" is very true, however IMO the Caterham is one of those cars that transcends that, it's really the best of both worlds (at the cost of comfort)

Now of course I have no intentions of racing Jimmy to find out, nor did I intend for this thread to become about me and my car (happy to discuss though ;) ), I was just giving Jimmy a dose of his own medicine 8)
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