Goodwood Revival 2009

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malcolmr18zoy
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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by malcolmr18zoy » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:11 pm

Hi Dean,
I guess since it was built by Touring, perhaps the full name could be Sunbeam Venezia Superleggera. Just clutching at straws there. Still can't think of an interesting fact.
Malcolm

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by tannyo » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:29 pm

Motorbase wrote:Sunbeam introduced a special, export only model in 1963, the Venezia. The Venezia was the result of a partnership between Sunbeam and Italian stylist Touring who made good use of various parts from other Rootes products.

The elegant body was made from aluminium and could seat four passengers in comfort within its 101 inch wheelbase. Despite its exotic appearance the Venezia was powered by a 1592cc, four cylinder engine which developed 88bhp. Despite its lack of power the Venezia was well equipped with overdrive and front disc brakes. The model remained in production until 1965 when it was quietly discontinued
Underpowered with an Italian designed aluminum body. I think the wheels look pretty awful on that sedan. Too small, wrong look.

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by Jimmy » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:40 pm

Could "the most interesting fact" be that someone wasted a perfectly good set of MiniLite wheels on it??
And who was it that called it "elegant"?!?
That someone must've been in the bar way past midnight, using severe beer goggles.
Heck, even I look good in comparison.
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by Larry Kluss » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:38 pm

malcolmr18zoy wrote:Hi Dean,
I guess since it was built by Touring, perhaps the full name could be Sunbeam Venezia Superleggera. Just clutching at straws there. Still can't think of an interesting fact.
Malcolm
Malcom is right Venezia used Superleggera construction, meaning aluminium body panels fitted to a tubular steel frame.

Larry

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by HealeyBN7 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:40 pm

Larry Kluss wrote:
Malcom is right Venezia used Superleggera construction, meaning aluminium body panels fitted to a tubular steel frame.

Larry
This is the one and only interesting fact - definition of the Superleggera construction method. Shared with the 3500GT, DB4/5 and a host of other great specialty cars. I guess they forgot to look under the hood before rebodying the car. It is not a performer and not really worthy of the Superleggera effort. But, if you saw what they started with, it could be considered an improvement.

Touring did not just put out winners. They have a equal mix of strange looking creations in their portfolio. Without a doubt the front is just .... awkward. Looks like the radiator grill was bolted to a flat sheet of steel and slapped into the front of a nice old Alfa.
IMGP2365.JPG
IMGP2440.JPG

Scoring is going to work like this. I feel obligated to spilt the extra point between Larry and Malcolm. Who knows how important a 1/2 a point will be???

Gene + 1
Malcolm + 4.5
Steve + 2
Larry + 2.5
Tannyo + 1
Jimmy + 1

The next one won't be easy... and don't worry there is not an endless supply:)

Dean
Last edited by HealeyBN7 on Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by malcolmr18zoy » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:04 pm

Hi Dean,
Well I like the hard ones, and I was rather hoping that you did have an endless supply. It's just great to cast my mind back over the years and remember those old cars. Thankyou for that pleasure.
Malcolm

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by Jimmy » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:22 pm

Well, Malcolm beat me to it, as he's fond of doing - I was going to thank you for giving us those neat pics to look at and ponder.
Ah, what the heck, I'll do it anyway; Thanks, Dean.
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by Steve Simmons » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:10 pm

I'll third that! I love this thread from start to finish - Goodwood to the car mysteries. :thumbs:

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by HealeyBN7 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:39 am

Thank you all for kind words. :D

For today's challenge I have upped the total available points to FIVE. So identify the make, model and why this one is worth so many points. Good luck.
IMGP2346.JPG
Dean

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by Steve Simmons » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:26 am

Donald Healey's personal car. It's special because of that, and because it has VW Bug tail lamps. :D

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by malcolmr18zoy » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:46 am

Hi Dean,
I'm sure this is the Austin Healey 4000. This had the ill fated Princess 4 litre R engine and was 6 inches wider than the 3000. I think only one was built, didn't go into production. Another British Leyland inter marque fatallity. You know, this could have been called the Healey 4000. I guess being a one off makes it pretty special. It was the mk 4 that never was, in a sense. The engine was designed by Rolls Royce, and built by Austin, only for use by Austin.
Malcolm

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by Larry Kluss » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:38 pm

Wow, Malcom is amazing. The only things I can add to what he said are that there were 3 prototypes made, it never actually had a name, though 4000 or MkIV would be appropriate, and the body was all aluminum vs. the mostly steel 3000.

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by HealeyBN7 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:11 pm

Malcolm gets it again and is running away with the points, but Larry gets two points as it didn't really have a name.

I thought the shot from the rear wouldn't be a give away. Designated as ADO 24 this Healey car was dead before the paint dried.

Healey enthusiests insist that this car should have been built with the RR engine as it was an improvement over the 3000 MKIII Phase II, but if you consider some of the other sports cars available in 1968/69 (Stingray, 240Z, Alfa) the Healey was starting to look a little dated. This is why I would like to arrange a car show by year, vs make and model. What looks great by itself doesn't always appeal when there is a better alternative available.

Here is the money shot. You can see the Rolls-Royce engine and the big 6" seam in the firewall.
IMGP2343.JPG
IMGP2345.JPG

Gene + 1
Malcolm + 7.5
Steve + 2
Larry + 5.5
Tannyo + 1
Jimmy + 1


Next one will be worth 10 points. Stay tuned.

Dean

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by Larry Kluss » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:23 pm

Dean, I believe I should have only 4.5, not 5.5 points. :roll:

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by Steve Simmons » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:38 pm

That's a dirty car!

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by HealeyBN7 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:40 pm

Dean, I believe I should have only 4.5, not 5.5 points. :roll:
Larry,

For your honesty, you are rewarded 1/2 a point. The new totals are:


Gene + 1
Malcolm + 7.5
Steve + 2
Larry + 5.0
Tannyo + 1
Jimmy + 1


Stay tuned for the next challenge.

Dean

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by Jimmy » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:34 pm

I think Steve deserves at least a 1/2 point for mentioning the VW taillights.
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by malcolmr18zoy » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:08 pm

The Austin Healey 4000 was an interesting project, but that engine was a bit of a dog. It was designed by Rolls Royce, but Austin economised on some of the metallurgy which affected it's reliability. If Jaguar wouldn't have blocked it, they would probably have been better to have used the Rover/Buick V8 and Rover's DeDion rear suspension. Could have been an interesting car.
Malcolm

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by HealeyBN7 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:15 pm

Jimmy wrote:I think Steve deserves at least a 1/2 point for mentioning the VW taillights.
Well in true BMC fashion it was cobbled together with available English parts. A reprint from Classic and Sports Car article says...." At the rear Morris Minor lamps were used, and other details included BMC 1800 bumpers, TR4A parking lights..."

http://www.ewilkins.com/wilko/ah4000.htm

I am pretty generous with points, but Steve will have to find another way to earn the points. Come to think of it, I can't think of an example of a '60s English classic with anything other than English lighting. They didn't play nicely with the Germans you know.

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by Steve Simmons » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:23 pm

Fine, I'll try bribery. :wink:

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by HealeyBN7 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:27 pm

malcolmr18zoy wrote:The Austin Healey 4000 was an interesting project, but that engine was a bit of a dog. It was designed by Rolls Royce, but Austin economised on some of the metallurgy which affected it's reliability. If Jaguar wouldn't have blocked it, they would probably have been better to have used the Rover/Buick V8 and Rover's DeDion rear suspension. Could have been an interesting car.
Malcolm
Agree. The Buick V8 would have been a good choice. Did you notice the spacing on the SUs. Looks like cylinders 3-4 would be starving for attention. Can't see how the gallery manifold would do anything positive for performance. That was the design used on the 100/6 that Donald Healey insisted be changed - hence the 3000. The distributor is easy to reach. Any higher and it would pop through the hood, and in traditional English coach building there is never a shortage of pop rivets. Do you really need 30 to attach the shroud to the firewall?

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by HealeyBN7 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:25 am

Steve Simmons wrote:Fine, I'll try bribery. :wink:
Now that's an idea worthly of points :thumbs:

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by malcolmr18zoy » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:57 am

Hi Dean,
That is an interesting article about the Austin Healey 4000 that you posted. There are some inaccuracies however. The Rolls Royce V8 engine was not designed by Buick, and I don't believe the FB60 engine was built by Rolls Royce. Back in the day, when I was involved in repairing these engines, we asked the Rolls Royce technical service rep why they used up camshafts so frequently. He told me, unofficially, that it was because the builders, Austin, had changed the metallurgy and it was a scource of embarrassment to the company. Certainly the engine didn't resemble the B60 derivative as used in the Silver Clouds, which was a paragon of reliability.
Malcolm

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by Jimmy » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:44 pm

HealeyBN7 wrote:
Jimmy wrote:I think Steve deserves at least a 1/2 point for mentioning the VW taillights.
Well in true BMC fashion it was cobbled together with available English parts. A reprint from Classic and Sports Car article says...." At the rear Morris Minor lamps were used

I am pretty generous with points, but Steve will have to find another way to earn the points. Come to think of it, I can't think of an example of a '60s English classic with anything other than English lighting. They didn't play nicely with the Germans you know.
I actually knew that those were Minor taillights, just like on the convertible my mother had, but like Steve I figured that VW was more demeaning.
Besides, Steve desperately needs more points.

Now, how many of you can identify the American car in the background, in front of the Healey?
Make, model designation and model years built.
In baseball, running into someone is apparently a "collision".
But doing the same thing in a car somehow makes it an "accident".

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Re: Goodwood Revival 2009

Post by HealeyBN7 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:10 pm

Jimmy wrote:
Now, how many of you can identify the American car in the background, in front of the Healey?
Make, model designation and model years built.

Ok I'll try. 1948 Willy's Model GPW.

Dean

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